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  • 44

No transmissions from UIA 737 crew before crash: investigators

Submitted
 
Flight recorders from the crashed Ukraine International Airlines Boeing 737-800 in Tehran have been retrieved, with their memory units, although both have signs of physical damage. (www.flightglobal.com) More...

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bbabis
Bill Babis 14
The only investigation needed here is where did the missile come from. The effects are pretty apparent.
tjperez927
Tony Perez 13
No transmissions before crash? Maybe in the list of...
- Aviate
- Navigate
- Communicate
....that they were still on Step 1.
(Yes, just speculation)
MikeinKyiv
Mike Lynn 19
Ive flown Ukrainian Airlines often and found the pilots to be as professional as you would find anywhere. I'm thinking in this case when the rocket(s) hit the plane the pilots were killed outright. Judging by the fireball the plane was doomed as soon as the rockets hit. With a full load of fuel for the flight to Kyiv, there was little that could be done. A horrible accident initiated by some trigger happy guys manning a missile battery.
VMGR352
Absolutely. From as far back as 1995, when Ukrainian pilots flew us in and out of Sarajevo on UN chartered An's, Il's and Tu's - these guys were top notch, managing some pretty hairy approaches and departures. Flew UA many times in the 2000's in and out of Boryspil - 1st rate! Harasho!
alelkins
Al Elkins 1
There are reports that the aircraft turned back toward the field after the strike...
BDaleR
Byron Russell 0
If the flight path indicated in this image is accurate, that is not much of a turn. https://image.businessinsider.com/5e15c3e3b2e66a71075dbe52?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp
mxman123
S Harris -1
What do you think was accidental? The firing or the target? What else do you think they may have been targeting?
Arklight
Shane Srenaski -2
No, the plane started to turn back to the airport after it was hit. The pilots couldn't have been killed.
bbabis
Bill Babis 5
Were the pilots causing the turn? Missile damaged airframe, engine, and/or flight controls is the most likely cause.
cougarblue
Steve Western 1
I agree, the loss of an engine could have resulted in a turn without the involvement of either pilots.
bbabis
Bill Babis 9
Certainly possible, but more than likely the missile strike incapacitated the comm system and/or crew along with flight control integrity.
ronspencer47
Ronald Spencer 13
When refusing access to recorders only gives more to a cover up I imagine with the surveillance of Iran at the moment the authorities already know what happened
jbsimms
James Simms 5
Not only that, the Iranians swept the crash site clean. Unless the wreckage is in a hanger/warehouse somewhere, makes one go hmmmmmm
sparkie624
sparkie624 9
From The Article: ”Given the crew’s experience, error probability is minimal,” the airline claims. “We do not even consider such a chance.”

That minimizes mechanical failure... 3 Comms on board, 2 with the ability to use STBY Power and no transmissions!
jbsimms
James Simms 4
Plus reports the aircraft had been inspected 2-3 days beforehand.

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kd7eir
Jim Myers 11
No transmissions from UIA 737 crew before crash - is YOU that is 100% WRONG

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Arklight
Are you retarded? They showed a video of the missle hitting the plane.
cougarblue
Steve Western 1
That’s why Iranian officials ordered the closing of Internet access, well that and a likely future strike on anti-government protesters
30west
30west 7
Both the U.S. and Canadian (63 souls lost) governments have confirmed that the Flight was shot down by an Iranian Air Defense surrface-to-air missile system. PM Justin Trudeau said that it was the Russian-built Tor (SA-15 Gauntlet) missile.
ghstark
Greg S 7
Yep. Case closed.

Not a great track record for Russian AA missile systems in the last few years. After probably a thousand sorties and hundreds of missile engagements the Syrians/Iranians finally downed an Israeli F-16l 2016, and nothing since then. In that time frame the Russians shot down MH-17, the Syrians shot down a Russian military plane (15 soldiers dead) while aiming at the Israelis, and now the Iranians have managed to shoot down a UIA 737. So one actual military target, a friendly fire disaster, and two civilian commercial airliners packed with civilian passengers.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han 1
The fact the missiles hit, showing the missile system worked really well, as they served their purpose (shooting down an aircraft) correctly.

What had failed, was the people in charge of pressing the fire button and launched the missiles.

And yes you can override IFF systems.

By your standards US built system aren't any better. They shot down a F/A-18 took off minutes ago back in the gulf war.

Oh and remember US Navy shot down a Iranian Airbus, yet the crew ware hailed as "heroes", the Captain of the ship who order the launch didn't suffer any consequence, and US didn't apologized to Iran dispute they shot down the airliner while violating Iranian waters.
(The airliner was delayed 30 minutes but was squawking correct Mode-3 code, flying level and even started climbing just before missile launch. The ship warned the airliner on military bands, which the airliner won't able to receive nor respond. They only warned the airliner on international distress frequency once, but gave only ground speed, which won't match with the airspeed. The last straw was they didn't provide squawk code, so the pilots thought the US destroyer was talking to anther plane and didn't respond.)

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BluSTi
James Willich 4
You're being downvoted, but it's not an inaccurate statement.
cougarblue
Steve Western 2
The crash site had been subject to bulldozers working continuously from soon after the crash. Does a government who does this seem interested in the truth? They stated that Boeing inspectors were free to fly in and inspect the crash site to prove to themselves that no missile was involved, of course they wouldn’t have allowed Boeing or the NTSB within 1000 miles of the scene while carrying the big lie as the cover story. I don’t believe a word Iranian officials say, nor do I think that the pilots had any options to navigate their aircraft. Remembering the scene of the 777 blown out of the air by another Russian ground to air missile, what was the condition of that bird? Witnesses saw flaming pieces falling off the 737 until it crashed, those pieces likely included an engine as well as the shattered pieces of the wing. The rest of the fuselage would have been peppered with fist sized holes.
BDaleR
Byron Russell 2
https://www.wate.com/news/national-world/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner/
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 1
Notice that it was under pressure that they released such news.
ghstark
Greg S 2
Just breaking from washington post:

"A U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter on the record, said that U.S. officials now believe the plane was brought down by an Iranian air defense system Wednesday.

President Trump was asked about the crash and said: “It’s a tragic thing when I see that. It's a tragic thing. Somebody could have made a mistake on the other side. ... Not our system. No. It has nothing to do with us.”

Ukrainian investigators said they were also looking into engine failure or a terrorist attack as possible causes of the crash.
"
kbeller44
Kyle Beller 4
I am curious how you accidentally shoot down a plane at 8k feet that just took off from your very own International Airport... Not saying this isn't what happened. Seems likely that it is in fact what happened.
ghstark
Greg S 3
The longest range variant of the SA-15 missile is less than 10 miles. It conceivable that the international airport itself is protected with an SA-15 battery. From a national standpoint it is a critical asset to the nation and thus a juicy target for attack.
jbsimms
James Simms 1
Well, the U2 that was shot down over Cuba during the missile crisis was the action of a local commander. Could be a similar occurrence here.
jmadunleavy
John D 6
"He was not authorized to discuss the matter on the record" = Leak. Leakers ought be prosecuted
ghstark
Greg S 5
Some leaks, probably this one, are intentionally made at the President's order. Leaking can be a tactic, to get information out for effect, but without an official imprimatur. A trial balloon, if you will.

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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 2
Cockpit voice recorder may give some clues?
nightflyer182
nightflyer182 6
Not if Iranians keep it a secret!
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 3
True, but 80+ Iranian and 60+ Canadian families will demand answers?
nightflyer182
nightflyer182 19
True. But since when has Iran cared about human life?!

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Jeraboam
Jeraboam 14
Both the quotation marks and the comment are reprehensible; these were human beings who were born in Canada or chose to live here, often decades ago. Flippancy or puting down immigrants in these tragic circumstances is shameful.
ghstark
Greg S 2
The only possible objection I see is to putting the word "Canadians" in quotes. The rest reporting of relevant and interesting details. You can bet that those Canadian Iranians were very productive and contributive Canadians.
kbeller44
Kyle Beller -2
Wasn’t putting down immigrants. Was just making a factual point that most of the passengers were Iranian so I doubt the Iranians shot the plane down on purpose. Thanks for being crazy over sensitive and looking for something to get all dramatic about though.
hulakai
Kevin Holly 1
Asshat redneck
btweston
btweston 4
Hmm. I wonder if the Iranians are a little trigger happy given recent events?
n6pe
I'll bet they offer up someone to take the blame
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Post execution...
n6pe
He'll get his 72 goats
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
white grapes
lecompte2
lecompte2 1
As we all know commercial airplanes have a transponder that identifies them precisely on radar, this begs the question, how could it have been miss-identified as a missile ?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
It begs the question to assume military IFF software polls ADSB out.
VivPike
Viv Pike 1
" .... begs the question, how could it have been miss-identified as a missile ? ..."
Or a Hostile Military Plane ??
BDaleR
Byron Russell 1
https://www.businessinsider.com/iran-bulldozers-ukrainian-jet-crash-site-complicate-investigation-2020-1
BDaleR
Byron Russell 2
"Visiting the crash site today, CBS reporter Elizabeth Palmer said 'virtually all pieces of the plane' had been removed with no security around the site and scavengers now scouring the remaining debris.

Bulldozers were seen at the crash site just hours after the plane came down and it is feared that valuable evidence could have been compromised or lost." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7872337/Iran-accuses-big-lie-missile-claims.html
cougarblue
In the overall scheme of aberrant human behavior those who loot the dead are at the bottom along with child sexual abusers.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
That's not a bulldozer in the picture, it is a loader.
The daiLy MaIl uses the same pics.
tbmorris51
Tom Morris 1
Purely and simply there is or will be a coverup unless someone brave speaks out.
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
In a couple of months with full compliance from the MSM, "like it never even happened"! Remember Lockerbie?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Not to mention the assistance of the attention span of the average American viewer.
nightflyer182
nightflyer182 1
If the events portrayed here are factual, then this airplane appears to be deliberately shot down.

According to the article the plane climbed to 8,000 feet before comms were lost. IF there were a fire in one engine, that would NOT result in the catastrophic events that occurred! However, a missile striking the plane would!

Seems someone wanted to blame the US for this senseless tragedy.

But let's get real. The US does NOT fire on civilian aircraft!!! Even if someone "of interest" happened to be aboard.

BTW. To those focusing on the fact that the plane was on fire when it crashed...DUH!!!
ghstark
Greg S 11
Someone is going to point out the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Airbus during the tanker war sometime during the presidency of Bush I. That was of course an accident and we owned up to it and paid compensation. But this plane appears to have been shot down by the Iranians.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 1
Except it didn't happen under Bush.
joelwiley
joel wiley 4
I would imagine the Irani missile defense system would be on high alert.
Some error on someones part may have precipitated a launch.
That is somewhat different than "let's ratchet up tensions by bagging a civilian airliner"
ghstark
Greg S 4
This is almost certainly exactly what happened.
Jeraboam
Jeraboam -4
Why would this flight be targeted or mistaken when it was on its normal daily flight path and flying away from the city at the same time as dozens of flights were in the same vicinity? It seems more likely that it could have been intentional and designed to stir up more trouble in the region. This narrows down the likely culprits and makes the Iranian regime less likely to benefit.
ghstark
Greg S 6
"Why would the flight be targeted or mistaken..."

Seriously? "Targeted" and "mistaken" are two very different things. No one except a Wahabi terrorist group would *target* a civilian airliner intentionally. With a mistake anything is possible -- that's why it's called a mistake.

"This narrows down the likely culprits and makes the Iranian regime less likely to benefit."

Ugh, more conspiracist garbage. I would say you're going to be embarrassed when the Iranians finally admit they're responsible in the next few days, but folks like you *never* admit when they're wrong, they just disappear back under their rock located somewhere on this flat earth.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Why not? It could be the luck of the draw. Looking at the departure/arrival data for that date/time, I don't see the dozens of flights in the vicinity. Can you provide your data on the A/C in the area at the time?
It seems like we don't have a whole lot of data and evidence. We should be circumspect on building conjectures on conjectures in the absence of data.
liko2k
Jakub Bialek 3
They don't ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
kgriffin1724
Kyle Griffin 1
Not to mention all of the North American students on board, what you are saying is spot on.
jcatherton
John Atherton 1
Stunningly uninformed comment.
jcatherton
John Atherton 5
Comment intended for linbb
ghstark
Greg S 4
Yeah, he's either a hopeless ass or a troll.

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raleedy
ALLAN LEEDY 1
Nice bigotry there.
kbeller44
Kyle Beller 3
barely coherent

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shenghaohan
Shenghao Han 0
Wrong time, wrong place.

Unfortunate disaster likely caused by unnecessary escalation of regional tension...

If it was Iranian missile, US should take even responsibility by escalating regional tension with that drone strike.
ah6oy
Jim DeTour 0
I'm sure the US military doesn't want to believe what happened. Who would put an airliner in the middle of an aggressively jammed area that just fired missiles at the US bases. Jammers of old would hammer picked frequencies. These days some jammers wait till sensing active freqs then flood the bandwidths with jamming.

If the pilot had prior military and heard jamming start he knew he had gone from airliner to unknown and possible target with a high likelihood of being a target with the way the systems like spoofing anything not friendly as a target. Not a good flight.
jmanley20
John Manley 0
Anyone who has watched the video of the 73 falling out of the sky knows for a fact this airplane was shot down... question is was it deliberate or not. The airplane would have been talking to local ATC departure control so there's a possibility that this was not a deliberate act by the Iranian military force. Now the other question is... could this have been terrorist related and have been a javelin missile? Curious what you guys think.
kbeller44
Kyle Beller 2
How does one mistake a 737 taking off from their own largest international airport? Not sure what is more concerning... accidental or deliberate.
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 2
The Javelin isn't designed for shooting down aircraft, it is a top-down attack missile for ground targets. It also can't climb to 8000 feet.
VivPike
Viv Pike 1
8000 MSL. The air port is around 3,500 feet, so the aircraft was probably around 3500-4000 AGL (just saying)
Jeraboam
Jeraboam -2
Interesting that my comment questioning some of the actions and statements from Western governments, including my own, was not posted, my account validity questioned and my comment delayed for "a few days". This despite my membership for almost a decade and dozens of previous comments. i wonder if this comment will survive the censors?
ghstark
Greg S 2
It must be a conspiracy.
jbsimms
James Simms 1
Check your Ovaltine Decoder Ring...”Drink Your Ovaltine”
Jeraboam
Jeraboam -1
Amazingly, it did while the original censored comments sent minutes earlier probably won't appear until after this issue is forgotten...!
gerdbeckmann
Gerd Beckmann -1
It was just televised on NBC News that the doomed Ukrainian 737 was the tenth flight which departed from Tehran International Airport

IF there were not missiles fired in retaliation, to the killing of General, this would in all likelihood not happened.

Accidental I hope; however, totally unnecessary unintended consequence in my opinion.

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