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Hang on, one of our wheels is missing! Horror on take-off as passengers see landing gear fall off plane.

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...faster than you can say Bombardier Q-series! (www.dailymail.co.uk) More...

Tom Kearney
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wahooncx
Aaron Whaley 0
Yawwwwn...

Dash-8's are statistically one of the safest aircraft in service. I would rather fly in one of them than most of the current crop of RJ's. I have never been in a Dash 8 where we didn't eventually take off. I have had way too many flights canceled in RJ's, due to "mechanical" issues.
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
"Ya picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel...." (with apologies to Kenny Rogers)

Glad they got her down safe.
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
4 hungry children and a crop in the field...
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MHarryE
Michael Enzmann 0
Are the brakes hydraulically or electrically activated? When the wheel tore loose would it damage the braking for the remaining wheel or should that remain completely functional? I believe the story states the plane swung to the right on landing but having burned off fuel, the remaining right main tire should not have been overloaded but it would have only had braking for 1 wheel instead of braking for 2 wheels like the left side. I am just assuming that designs take into account these oh, crap! moments and unless the wheel falling off bounced and damaged something, it should be a return to the terminal, pick up a rental plane (kidding), and continue on your way.
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seahawker01
seahawker01 0
The Q400 seems to be lacking here. Were most airplanes have two hydraulic systems where one powers the inboards and the other powers the outboards, the Q400 has common hydraulic lines with a shuttle valve that gets pressure from the primary source or secondary source. The primary source is the #1 hydraulic system that uses line pressure with antiskid from the foot pedals. The secondary source is the #2 system with a dedicated accumulator that is activated by a single lever that applies pressure to all wheels with no antiskid protection. The rub is I am not sure how it would react to ruptured brake line as it would then be hard to build pressure. In this scenario the toe brakes would be functional and the Left Main would brake as normal but the Right Main may not as the pressure is leaked out the damaged inboard line.
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seahawker01
seahawker01 0
Also the storied said it veered left. This would support the normal braking on the left and reduced braking on the right it both toe brakes were activated with the same pressure. Also the right wheel might tend to skid more and the anti-skid could reduce braking further.
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
Should be hydraulic
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MHarryE
Michael Enzmann 0
I Googled it afterward and saw that the 787 is apparently the only airliner to currently use electric brakes. In either case I believe there would be either hydraulic lines or electric cabling to secure the brake from falling off even if a wheel is lost, looking at a section view of a landing gear system.
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silverkite
brian hamlin 0
Leave the Dash 8 alone, its a Great aircraft..
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
It was the inside right main.
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dee9bee
dee9bee 0
Come on, Daily Mail, this is a lot of fuss over very little, really.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Douglas, I strongly disagree with you. I have been a pilot for years and ANY incident like losing the inside right main after take off should not be labeled as a "fuss over very little."
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juanmacassol
Juan Martin Cassol 0
After all, the aircraft landed safetly. But I won't trust on FlyBe's aircraft maintenance
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calbert
calbert 0
Wow, I wander who will be in troble for that one? Witch A&P?
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Answer to your question: the crews inspecting these AC plus maintenance procedures, that's who.
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
Probably the one wandering around on the broom...
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pfp217
pfp217 0
If there were a like button it would be pushed. As I scrolled I was geared up to reply but it was already done!
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
Glad I beat someone to it...
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foxhole
Joseph Fox 0
Conflicting information, was it the wheel or the landing gear that fell off. You know they are two different parts.
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maiden757
Ross Bremner 0
I like the bit that says "Luckily there was an aircraft technician onboard and he had a look and told the pilot what was wrong". Really??????????? It took a technician. Well done to him LOL
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
"I am a certified Aircraft Technician, and I can officially confirm and certify after careful inspection per the FAA manual that the DAMN WHEEL FELL OFF!!"
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davysims
David Sims 0
There is a reason why I would never set foot on a Dash-8, they have had way too many incidents involving landing gear failures. There was a video on the internet years ago a passenger took during takeoff where the wheel fell off.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
David, it is not the Dash-8 which is in question here; rather, it is the quality of the ongoing maintenance of these aircraft AND attention to detail of the crews during preflight.

I saw someone mentioned the uncommanded yaw rudder problems with the 737 aircraft. This was due to a design flaw and shoddy maintenance too.

You can go to the NTSB's site and read the reports the GO Team submitted for all incidents/accidents .
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
I would never set foot out my door, too many things going on...
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kea001
Tom Kearney 0
ROTFLMAO!! Too many things going on. lol.
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sandylns
Brian Lager 0
Air Nova and its successor, Air Canada Jazz, have operated a fleet of approximately 70 Dash 8's since the late eighties early nineties. To date they have not had a failure like the one mentioned. The previous incidents reported were mostly caused by poor maintenance and not design faults as you appear to favour. SAS had their collective knuckles rapped for shoddy work by the Swedish CAA. In my 45 years in the aviation industry I have seen a fair amount of poor workmanship. Both from the large carriers, who should know better, and third world puddle jumpers. In the former there is no excuse. in the latter they have to make do with nothing. Not a good omen.
So, I suggest the next time you board a flight, don't look at the type of aircraft look at its overall appearance. Is the aircraft generally clean and tidy?, are the crews likewise tidy and efficient looking? Or, does the aircraft look like the rats have had a go at it and the ground and flight crews need a good bath.
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seahawker01
seahawker01 0
Hmm, I seem to remember 737 rudders hard over and crashing yet people still fly those. Remember the landing gear is visible to the passengers unlike other airplanes that loose wheels too.
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organfreak
Scott Hawthorn 0
The 737 rudder anomaly was very hard to reproduce and understand by the investigators, but it was done and the problem was fixed, a long time ago.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Ultimate cause was contamination of hydraulic fluid - along with design flaw + lack of C checks on the 737's involved.
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jcr31047
Robert Duke 0
Mr. Sims, you shouldn't be worried about the type of aircraft in as much as the operator maintenance capabilities...Ref: In all, eight Q400s had landing gear failures while landing during 2007: four in Denmark, one in Germany, one in Japan, one in Lithuania and one in South Korea. In November 2007, it was revealed that the Swedish Civil Aviation Administration had begun an investigation and as a result accused Scandinavian Airlines System of cutting corners in its maintenance. The airline reportedly made 2,300 flights in which safety equipment was not up to standard.[42] On March 10, 2008, SAS ordered 27 more aircraft from Bombardier in a compensation deal; 14 Q400 NextGen turboprops and 13 CRJ900 jets.
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alistairm
alistairm 0
Thanks Robert. It is a wonderful French-Canadian product:)
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jett1953
jett1953 0
....built in Toronto.......
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alistairm
alistairm 0
Well, Toronto has to have something good, because it's hockey team sucks! lol:P
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
All in all, some of these incidents/accidents won't be explained unfortunately until people are killed. Everyone remember UAL 232 in Sioux City Iowa? It was only due to the OUTSTANDING ability of Capt Al Haynes, and the other DC-10 pilot sitting in the jump seat that day, that anyone walked away from that one.

NOTE: since that crash, no other pilot anywhere has been able to land that aircraft in a Singer-Link Simulator. My hat will always be off to Capt Haynes!
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AABABY
AABABY 0
I recall a song by The New Christy Minstrels. "Three Wheels On My Wagon" and I'm still rollin' along.
Happy to know there was no tragedy, though.
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Bobqat
Bob Harrington 0
What's with the headline "...(but don't bother to tell the crew)"? Nothing in the story supports that idiot claim.

Yellow journalists. Can't live with 'em, and there's just too darned much paperwork if you kill 'em...
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organfreak
Scott Hawthorn 0
Professional journalists wouldn't make a mistake like that. Now that we have "news" on the Internet, why, "anyone can be a journalist!"
Both of my parents were well-respected professional journalists. They would never type anything that hadn't been carefully fact checked. Blogs? Anything goes.
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stickman69
Mike Stinnett 0
Holy crap, one of the captions under one of the photos says (& I copied & pasted for accuracy): "The ACCIDENT happened shortly after the plane had taken off from Exeter airport bound for Newcastle"
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organfreak
Scott Hawthorn 0
So, the wheel coming off was not an accident? :-)
'Incident' would have been the better word, I guess.
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stickman69
Mike Stinnett 0
Yes, it was an incident, not an accident. There was no damage done during the landing and no injuries
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AABABY
AABABY 0
Mike: Are you any relation to Carole Stinnett?
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silverkite
brian hamlin 0
This exact thing does not happen to JUST Dash 8s...I know of two incidents of this happening to Colgan Air Saab 340s
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joecoastie
joecoastie 0
All right people. Move along, move along. Nothing to see here.
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 0
please remain calm.....just a loose axle nut....these things happen all the time....I got this..lol
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
I shake my head at people who don't fly this or that because it's American made or
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THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
I hit the wrong button there, but let me continue. I shake my head at people who don't fly this or that because it's American made or Brazilian or French made. Now, French maid, that sounds good... The parts are all made from various countries, an airplane is an airplane. When the drunk guy runs the red light in his Chevy and kills you in your Nissan, would your family never drive in a Chevy again??? After the airplane crash, does the doctor say these people died as a result of flying in a Lockheed product??? Where are the Airbus critics now??? They should be commenting on the recent Boeing incidents. Mechanical failures will occur with any product, so will pilot error. What I find funny, are people who criticise a product, take a job flying it, or fly on it as a passenger. If you feel that strong about it, and you are entitled to, don't get on it period.
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Bogush
Bogush 0
this is the new way of T/O the Polish way
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linbb
linbb 0
Ho Hum nothing bad here still had one wheel on the gear no reason to get worried. Hey Sims get a grip its a mechanical failure nothing to do with the way the plane was made so get over it.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
I suppose I should add this: have you ever executed a landing with your inside right main missing?
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
I'm guessing "NO"
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Hey Butler, let's say it this way instead: the carriers need to get a grip and perform the proper maintenance WHEN it should be performed.
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keithpeers
keith peers 0
It happens. It safe.
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flith
thor nibus 0
Don't say anything until you're on final. Then tell the crew. That way you won't circle for hours and return to your origin.
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preacher1
preacher1 0
Kinda makes you wonder why the PAX didn't say anything??????? While not totally life threatening, it did require a little finesse' and special handling.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Indeed, one can only remember the Aloha Airlines 737-200 which lost much of the roof due to metal fatigue. The problem WAS noticed by a PAX, but not reported to the crew. The 1st Flight Attendant was killed.
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tuba
tuba 0
As a passenger, I once watched quarts of hydraulic fluid rush down the wing whenever the flaps moved; when I reported it on the way out, crew treated me like the village idiot, and rushed up the jetway past me into the terminal. Guess I might have been skeptical, too, though.
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pilot62
Scott Campbell 0
Outside of the Bufffalo Dash-8 crash (Complete Pilot ERROR !) these are GREAT aircraft, are more comfortable than a CRJ200, cost less to fly, and free beer and wine on Horizon on <1 hour flights. And sometimes setting foot in one will save a hell of a lot of driving.
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Flyinblyian
Flyinblyian 0
Well Said Scott!
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
But with the noise and vibration, give me the RJ. I'm an average sized guy - 5'11" x 200 - and I'm comfortable in either one.
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Bsklarski
Brian Sklarski 0
http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/wwlp_local_investigation_launched_in_c5_tire_drop_20090724

Back in July of 2009, this happened about 1.5 miles from my home
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tgchurchman
Tom Churchman 0
Geez, Horror on take-off as passengers see landing gear fall off plane.... Horror? One tire goes off on its own for a spin... it's not ideal but most passengers that fly commuters are not too surprised after recent revelations about a 1st officer with 500 hour twin time in a Seneca taking the first leg as the Captain with 1501 hours at 24 years of age is sleeping off his all night shift at burger king to make the mortage! I at times enjoy the fantasy of the press sitting in the back when Bob Hoover would fly his twin Commander down landing on 1 tire with engines off after doing a slow roll as he had his morning coffee and a donut in one hand, then they might understand what would make blood start kicking in the body due to excitement! (I will always idolize Bob Hoover). The point is the press can't wait to over do the next basic nonevent and make certain the scare factor stays at 10 on top of all the other "horrors" in flight like seeing a cabin member get a direct hit by a 1 oz. empty plastic cup! Hey its just an opinion don't open fire on me!
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Bob is a pilot right up there with Paul Mantz.

To watch him glide his Shrike inverted with engines off and feathered is something to see. I am so glad he survived the crash when someone fueled his plane with the wrong fuel - Jet A.
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tgchurchman
Tom Churchman 0
Yes, an incredible aviator. I know this is off topic but what a historical pilot. In WWII after being shot down he escaped and flew away in a German aircraft. His routine at airshows also included his antics in a P-51 and many do not know he was the back up pilot to Chuck Yeager in the X-1 project, Bob has been a test pilot his entire career really and I vividly recall the nothing but mean and nasty (sorry this will get somebody riled but its true) FAA individual that managed to get his medical revoked for 3 years before he got it back. I encourage all members of this group to read about this remarkable pilot, he really has done it all and in '88 was inducted to the Aviation hall of fame.

Read his book "Forever Flying" and as mentioned by Jim Newton his accident due to a mis-fuel led to the "Hoover" nozzle that has a shape that will not allow the wrong fuel to be pumped into aircraft. Sorry for the sidetrack but one last thing, look online to find and watch as he performs a barrel roll while drinking tea during his routines! There won't be another of his kind again at least for a while. (He retired from flying in the 1990's) His legendary Straw Hat should end up on display for all to see!
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
Just to slightly - very slightly, defend the author, I think to the AVERAGE flyer, the sight of a wheel falling off of your plane would be pretty horrifying. Most of us here are not average flyers and have a much better understanding of the concept of landing an aircraft with a missing wheel. Most people would envision a spinning, tumbling, fiery crash as their initial reaction. This would certainly be much more horrifying than the incident in a previous post about "duct tape" holding the windshield in in that Ryanair bird!
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tgchurchman
Tom Churchman 0
Brian you are correct, I tend to jab at the press quite a bit as in this case the buzz words meant to grab readers are so over the top - "Horror on take-off as passengers see landing gear fall off? Even seasoned pilots will stop to see if the Tower turned on the "Sully Light" (such as in Batman) to get the past decades most known aviatior to do a "Airport 75" and drop into the Dash 8 to bring it to a soft safe landing. The headline just was too easy a target for me to ignore as most experienced pilots have had landing gear incidents. Hey Happy Veterans Day to our guys and gals who served and saved!
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
I understand what you're saying about the press completely, Tom!

Ditto on the Veteran's Day wishes. Thank you all!
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Brucer
Bruce Robertson 0
> [the crew] were shouting “keep your heads down”

I've long wondered about the heads-down crash position given that seats tend to break loose of the floor during a crash. I think I'd rather pull my legs up into a fetal position -- it seems more survivable than heads down. Any thoughts?
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flith
thor nibus 0
the video showed some with their hands crossed in front of their heads - WRONG!!! a good way to break both your arms if the seat back in front of you doesn't break first.
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
Mythbusters did a show about this exact thing and showed that the standard "crash position" does indeed result in fewer serious injuries.
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crk112
crk112 0
I have to laugh that people felt the need to send goodbye messages to their family.

That's like me sending a goodbye message to my wife for getting a flat tire.
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kea001
Tom Kearney 0
Read AV Herald Dash 8 incidents if you want a thorough explanation of the wheel problems.
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Amarz010
Muammar Khairudin 0
This is what normally will happen when somebody take things for granted
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
All of the incidents mentioned here are VERY likely du to the lack of quality maintenance for the aircraft mentioned. I would be teal interested whe the last A or B, and especially C checks were done on the subject tail numbers.
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FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot 0
at least you have the choice between the bombardier q-series and the ERJ-145 most of the time in the US, I would always fly the ERJ...Brazilian Engineering!
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AABABY
AABABY 0
Wasn't it an Embraer CRJ that lost control due to mechanical failure in flight controls in Jacksonville, Fl. Mid 80s I think. Killed everyone aboard. Turned out to be an engineering error.
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eddyandy
eddyandy 0
It was the wheel spindle, not the aircraft. I worked in the manufacture of automotive wheel spindles. They mostly are lubricated for life and sealed. If one is under lubricated or dry in manufacturing it will overheat and crack from the heat and seperate.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Are there any airline employees in this discussion?
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frankeb
Frank Barchi 0
oooohhh the humanityyyyyy!!!

oh, the horror!!!
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Bogush
Bogush 0
this actually is the new way of taking off - the Polish way
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BenKFIT
Ben Lillie 0
Pilots land planes that are missing the whole landing gear, this was just a wheel.
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
Except for the crew coordination on this one, it might have been "just a whole aircraft".
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indy2001
indy2001 0
It was too simple for the reporter to pass on the news that the report for an 8-month-old incident was just released. He just couldn't resist over-dramatizing the passengers' "horror" one more time. Of course, no link to the report was included.
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 0
Horror feeled the skys.....wow they will say anything to sale a story...Looking at the title you would think that the whole gear assembly came off but if you look at the picture you will see that only one tire came off....Probably just a loose axle nut or bad bearings....they probably did a brake job and ooops.
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keithpeers
keith peers 0
DUE TO THE PILOTS IT LAND SAFE. It can happen.
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ikele76
Richard Shirley 0
HOO Humm this is non story
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flith
thor nibus 0
Don't say anything until you're on final. Then you won't have to circle for hours and return to your origin. What a waste of time for a non-event.
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flyerz
Brad Greiner 0
And a 767 couldn't get its gear down in Poland last week...better not set foot a Boeing either. Or any other airplane for that matter. Why are you on flight aware if you are so fearful of airplanes?
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GaAubie
Ken Hardy 0
Co Pilot walk around missed that one, maybe he/she just counts the wheels not looks to see if the hub nuts are there
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 0
yep
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noof25
noof25 0
what a big deal over nothing....
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 0
Get that flat tire in Compton and we'll see how fast you send that text....lol
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bishops90
Brian Bishop 0
LMAO!!
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KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 0
The Dash-8 it an extremely safe aircraft when you consider that of the 1039 delivered - only six have been involved in fatal accidents. Compare this to the 747. Of the 1418 747's delivered - 24 have been involved in fatal accidents. What is especially remarkable about he Dash-8 safety record is that it make many more take-off's and landings in a typical day than a 747 (the most dangerous phase of the flight) and is flown by pilots far less experienced than the typical 747 crew. Obviously it is a very well-built and forgiving aircraft to fly.
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mayam13
mayampurath jayamohan 0
I am not a pilot,but I must say that pilot of a heavy aircraft is in no way responsible for security of the wheels.
It is very clear that the cotter pin of wheel axle nut was missing.
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Kingair31
Kingair31 0
Non-Event......The landing gear didn't "fall off">>>Dash 8 experts relax.
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pfp217
pfp217 0
Agreed. The tire installation on the gear strut really doesn't change too much between types so it's hard to blame the type on this. I've seen it happen to many different aircraft from the J31 all the way through the L1011.
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pfp217
pfp217 0
my mistake it was a Saab not a J31
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UAL777
Jim Newton 0
"Non Event". Not quite I would add.
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davysims
David Sims 0
As part of my job, I spend quite a bit of time with accident reports. I have seen too many of the same types of incidents involving Dash-8s. It is obvious there is a problem, and DH has been slow to fix it. Just ask SAS Airlines about their experiences with the Q400. They had several aircraft with gear failures within a few months time.
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MANBOI
MANBOI 0
Perhaps SAS is the problem? Have there been any gear collapse issues in USA?
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Kingair31
Kingair31 0
What is your job Mr. Sims? How does SAS and the Q400 relate to the Dash 8?
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ibock
Ian Bock 0
Then you should know SAS was found to be responsible for those problems, because of improper maintenance. Also, DHC doesn't make them anymore, Bombardier does. How's that research working out for you?
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