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  • 37

Stacking them deep and selling them cheap: Frontier Airlines to put 230 seats on new Airbus A321s

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Frontier Airlines, which has remade itself into an ultra low-cost, low-fare carrier, said Tuesday it is ordering more aircraft from the Airbus A320 family. (aviationblog.dallasnews.com) More...

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bdjam
Brian James 17
So are they going to oil up the passengers before they get on the plane so they can slip around like a can of sardines?
nasdisco
Chris B 13
How about some free anti antiperspirant and deodorant?
bdjam
Brian James 4
I don't think so...budget airline remember...
jbqwik
jbqwik 13
Everything in life has a price; your comfort is one. As long as *somebody buys tickets for this torture this sort of thing will continue. At some point people have to learn that in a democratic society their best weapon is their hard earned money. Cheaper isn't always better. One last word: ... nah, I think that covers it..
siriusloon
siriusloon 3
That's absolutely true. If not enough people will accept the squeeze in exchange for lower fares, then the airlines wouldn't do this. Because enough people do accept it, the airlines do it. Why wouldn't they?

Which doesn't mean that I accept it and would fly with them.
chudddds
chudddds 3
US trailer parks have an endless supply
waypoint66
David Rice 2
Sounds like you have much experience with trailer parks.
jchen18
Jeremy Chen 8
This is among the few reasons why a traveler should never fly Frontier. You rather pay $100-200 more and go Delta, Jetblue, and Virgin America.
mootsie
Worst airline ever.
Quackers
Quackers 4
Ridiculous. I mean, just whoa. 230?!
bobfiegel
Robert Fiegel 4
At what point does it become too dangerous because emergency exit on the ground is impossible due to the crush of bodies trying to get out?
preacher1
preacher1 1
to be determined. That 90 second evacuation requirement from the FAA is still there though.
mcmitton
Mary Mitton 2
Met by employees who've trained to exit quickly and methodically?
umcima1964
guy lever 4
I never fly Frontier because their schedules are not very good...but this would move me to the "I will NEVER fly Frontier" category
waypoint66
David Rice 2
Try flying from Denver to Minneapolis in the morning and getting there at a reasonably "morning" time. Fact is, to some cities, the Frontier schedule is most convenient. However, I guess I'll just have to sacrifice convienience in favor of comfort.
mldavis2
Mike Davis 3
The CEO's of these airlines are either 5'2" tall, or they have never flown economy coach in their entire lives. I will never fly Frontier.
waypoint66
David Rice 4
I've met the CEO of Frontier. He was sitting next to me in First Class on a United flight!
califdreaming123
Paul Barker 3
These guys are learning from Walmart. Drive the price low, offer horrible service, treat the customer and employees like crap, and it's a winning combination, because most people have no self respect. They'll do anything to save a buck - eat shitty food, buy crap products, and endure lousy service as long as it's CHEAP.

Treat people like morons and cattle, and you can't go wrong...
waypoint66
David Rice 1
Theses a tipping point on getting a good deal, and Frontier just crossed it. As others have said on this forum, even though I have SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND miles on Frontier, I'll find a way to use those miles without flying Frontier.
waypoint66
David Rice 1
Darn auto-correct. Theses = There is.
wb2cjs
wb2cjs 4
I used to be a Frontier frequent flyer with "status", pretty impressive flying out of New York.

When the airline was acquired by Republic, everything went downhill. When Republic spun it off, things got even worse.

Over the past three years I have witnessed an extreme de-evolution:

- Removal of free soft drinks
- Loss of extended legroom (Unless you pay extra for it)
- Removal of advanced seat assignment (unless you pay extra for it)
- Loss of free moving map
- Loss of Wild Blue Yonder Magazine
- Loss of (free) Wild Blue Yonder TV
- Loss of MSNBC TV
- Raised price for TV, twice!
- Frequent flights where TVs to not work - either for the entire plane or for many seats
- Loss of free TV for Ascent and Summit
- Discounted credit of economy-ticket miles toward Elite Status
- Loss of free breakfast or snack
- Loss of hot food completely
- Loss of Udi snacks
- Reduced or eliminated service from New York City
- Loss of free checked baggage
- Loss of free carry-on baggage
- Loss of free checked baggage with Elite Status

I sent them an e-mail about this, and got an acknowledgement of receipt but no reply. I think they know they are screwing their customers, but figure there are enough cattle out there to fill the flying boxcars that it doesn't matter.

Even though I have over 100,000 frequent flyer miles banked, I will not fly Frontier ever again.
mootsie
Totally agree.
waypoint66
David Rice 0
You consider the loss of MSNBC programming to be a negative? I'm not defending these cheap bureaucrats, but several of the things you say have been lost are still provided to Ascent and Summit members. Nonetheless, I'm done with them too, as a result of the additional seat cramming. The market will speak on this. frontier may not yet realize that for most travelers, schedule and comfort are most important, as we don't pay for our tickets anyway, our company does, and many of us still get to pick our own flights.
damiross
David Ross 2
Nobody tell the FAA that Frontier is putting 230 seats in. The maximum the FAA allows is 220 (see the type certificate data sheet at http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/BEBE127CB58BE7E386257E4D00594750?OpenDocument - page 35 and the note on page 42
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
Hate ta burst the bubble David, but when Frontier gets these, they will be the A321NEO with a certfied rating of 240 seats...And I thot Spirit seats were bad.
damiross
David Ross 1
236, actually, according to the Airbus page. I'll have to remember to look up the TCDS once the aircraft is certified.
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a320family/a321/specifications/ shows the A321NEO specs.
paultrubits
paul trubits 1
Maybe the other ten will be SRO.
ADXbear
ADXbear 2
Just put poles in like a bus... i'll never fly in something like this... you got to be Freaking kidding me...
siriusloon
siriusloon 5
On more than one occasion, the lunatic who runs Ryanair has seriously proposed having standing passengers with no seats.
watkinssusan
I have actually been on planes before where when the pilot tells the f/a's to prepare for arrival and,they were still funning up and down the aisle collecting trash as the flight landed and not in their seats..kind of a "bumpy landing" for the f/s'not in a seat...I cannot imagine an executive thinking standing passengers was a good idea..airplanes are not quite like the subway or a bus where you can hold onto a strap if there are no seats!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I prefer when the FA's are funning in the lav.
Quackers
Quackers 5
and at least on a greyhound its 2-2 seating, with decent legroom
chalet
chalet 2
Greyhound anyone
mickeya2u
Friends recently flew Spirit out of BWI to PDX. A hurry-up trip and everyone knows last minute booking is pricey. By the time the extra's were paid, they could have flown Alaska N/S out of DCA and they live in DC!
PilotGuy251
PilotGuy251 4
Amtrak anyone?
chudddds
chudddds 6
amtrak is awesome, they have a bar
PilotGuy251
PilotGuy251 2
Nice. I've yet to ride it, but have filmed them many times as I'm a railfan. Maybe someday. I hear they have great food too.
yonian
yonian 2
For: Lots of legroom in coach. 120VAC power outlets. Discount for 62 and older. <bold>No TSA.</bold>

Against: Slower and often very late.

It's a lifestyle choice.
PilotGuy251
PilotGuy251 2
Yeah, they've got to work on their timeliness, kinda hard with all the mainline freight though. Even tougher if you have a one track mainline. City of New Orleans has been running early lately. Don't know how long that'll last though.
watkinssusan
well..the name of the game is not really passenger comfort or cheap fares,its how to make money..frontier has been doing pretty well,so in spite of passengers who might complain,they will still get the people who need to fly on whatever routes they have, and feel they are getting a bargain price..cramming people into smaller seats,closer together is common practice nowadays in the old coach section!!
klimchuk
klimchuk 1
It's accepted until disaster happens, somebody dies and then regulators will change the rules
waypoint66
David Rice 2
Since the primary objective of the regulators (the FAA) in the US is to "promote the aviation industry", and not to ensure safety, any rule change is likely to be in the airline's favor, not the travelling public!
JENNYJET
Message to all airlines...PACK THEM THICK FOR SHORT HOPS....GIVE US SPACE FOR ANYTHING ELSE! Charge therefore accordingly. The Japanese did this with B747SP and if memory serves, DC10-40? Special and specific models for unique routes.
fyitaf
paul mosher 0
B747SP was long rannge as well as DC10-30 there was no -40. They don't build interior specific aircraft.
bixlercs
Samuel Bixler 1
There was a DC10-40, different engines than the -30 if I recall correctly. The JAL high density 747 was the SR, not SP-- beefed up landing gear among other mods, again IIRC.
damiross
David Ross 1
From Wikipedia:
The first long-range version fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines. Originally designated DC-10-20, this model was renamed DC-10-40 after a special request from Northwest Orient Airlines as the aircraft was much improved compared to its original design, with a higher MTOW (on par with the Series 30) and more powerful engines. The airline's president wanted to advertise he had the latest version. The company also wanted its aircraft to be equipped with the same engines as its Boeing 747s for commonality. Northwest Orient Airlines and Japan Airlines were the only airlines to order the Series 40 with 22 and 20 aircraft, respectively. Engine improvements led to the DC-10-40s delivered to Northwest featuring Pratt & Whitney JT9D-20 engines producing 50,000 lbf (222 kN) of thrust and a MTOW of 555,000 lb (251,815 kg). The -40s for Japan Airlines were equipped with P&W JT9D-59A engines that produced a thrust of 53,000 lbf (235.8 kN) and a MTOW of 565,000 lb (256,350 kg).[23] 42 were built from 1973 to 1983.[31] Externally, the DC-10-40 can be distinguished from the -30 series by a slight bulge near the front of the nacelle for the #2 (tail) engine.
lewisw2
WILLIE LEWIS 1
Northwest Airlines flew the DC10-40.
BurkhardRenk
Burkhard Renk 1
Hm, this is about the same as a 186 seat 738, which is the typical Ryanair configuration. Compared to 10 abread on a 77W this is far more comfortable. So while not luxury, something you can survive for flights below 5 hours...
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
Ryanair is upping the seat count on the new 737Maxx and reconfiguring 737-800 seats to add more
mariofer
mariofer 1
Leave your legs at home or check them with your luggage for a fee.
vanstaalduinenj
Sorry last post was for United article, apologies
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
WOWSERS..this airline is gonna be the US equivalent of Europen airline Ryanair except Ryanair is gonna stackem and packem in a 737-maxx
chalet
chalet 1
Welcome to SARDINE CAN AIRLINES, we don't serve any but we pack them tightly. We have already requested Airbus to weld 2 rows of seats (25 abreast) on each wing and 1 row of 5 seats on each side of the horizontal stabilizer and we are not done yet, our aerodynamicists are hard at work trying to see how many seats can be bolted or glued down (does not matter the method) on top of the fuselage. Passengers will have to don heavy parkas though.
preacher1
preacher1 -3
Kinda like the picture of the Tri-star or DC10, couldn't tell which, of Obama Air?
vanstaalduinenj
I have seen the seats they plan on using, close to a recaro racing seat, very thin strong material
This is partially the reason behind the added capacity.
I personally have never flown frontier as they do not service the great white north and don't do much out of buffalo (1 hour drive for me)
But I do fly to Vegas semi often and would endure the tight confines for the 4 hours to save the 400$ for the tickets for my wife and I. Frontier take note......buffalo to Vegas please....
gep71
Gary Payton 1
another reason to stop using commercial airlines. Earn a private pilot's license and fly yourself. Don't have to put up with this kind of treatment from the airlines, or TSA either.
watkinssusan
this is an excellent point..however..you must take into consideration the very high cost of the lessons to fly,the number of hours required,the cost of a flight instructor,the rental of an airplane,or buying one yourself..and then..i hate to say it,there seem to be a large number of private plane crashes reported,where the private pilot does not have the equipment/instruments on his or her aircraft,nor the training to say,fly in foggy circumstances or avoid that mountain..not every private pilot has been trained as a commercial pilot,bells and whistles included..i agree tsa is a pain when you have to make sure your shampoo or whatever is in a tiny little bottle in a plastic container, and you still have to remove your shoes and walk through the machine,where they do not even use lysol to sanitize the floor ..I don't see any major improvements in the near future however,even with congressional hearings...
vanstaalduinenj
Yup they do, no wide bodies yet but the article says they have orders for the 350.
Just flew on 320 from Chicago to Pearson
But the CFO reiterated how key the 787 was to them.

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