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  • 45

China Airlines Touches Down in Grass at O'Hare (Part 2)

Submitted
 
On June 21, 2018 a China Airlines cargo flight, CI5148, performed a go-around after touching down in the grass during an attempted landing on runway 10L at Chicago-O'Hare International Airport. Weather at the time of the incident included light rain, with 500 foot ceilings and visibility of three statute miles. I don't get it either. (www.youtube.com) More...

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sgbelverta
sharon bias 6
Flight data may be important because the pilot wasn't going to discuss the incident, at least over the air. Several airport officials were dispatched to met him at his arrival area.
Coalora
Coalora 11
I'd be interested to see, if ever we get to, exactly when the flight crew took over from autopilot. As was shown in the Asiana SFO crash investigation, many of the crews from this area of the world spend much more time hands-off than our crews do.
bettiem
bettiem -8
I'm interested to know who you mean by "our" when you write "than our crews do". Do you work for another airline, and that's what you're comparing? If so which one, and to what extent do your hands-off hours differ? And is it in training or in on-duty flight or both?
SethAnderson
Seth Anderson 4
I'm not sure as to what extent they're "not cooperating" but honestly.. I'd be very worried about my career and probably wouldn't want to answer a bunch of questions right there on the spot either. I'd definitely be getting myself proper representation while waiting for official channels of communication.
chalet
chalet 3
I saw a picture of the "ditch" that the wheels dragged when touching down on the Grass and I felt chills up my spine
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 4
Centreline, Centreline & Centreline
patpylot
patrick baker 4
100 % pilot fault here, so something way beyond a slap on a wrist is clearly called for . Exactly how bad was what we all clearly saw in the video? The pilot did get the aircraft down on contact, The aircraft went around, maybe knowing, maybe not knowing the problem landing on and taxing from a grass strip at the gross weight at landing.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Pretty obvious it's pilot confusion! I want condemn him/her now until proof is in. However, pretty ballz to make a good go around with all the added pressure they had after the fast awakening of squash sound instead of screech upon contact!
babyracer
babyracer -4
Hmm, interesting. Condemnation in the absence of full details. The epitome of “guilty until proven innocent”. You sure do fit in 2018.
CAVUWestport
CAVUWestport 2
Regardless of fault, hope they know to get thorough inspection, properly certified, documented, before taking off or they'll have a second violation on their hands.
sgbelverta
sharon bias 4
Kind of scary, but you have to hand it to the pilot, he got that loaded 747 out of the mud. Course it would have been better if he hadn't landed in the mud in the first place.
dennis90314
Dennis Mclaughlan 1
I was a window seat passenger on a b 737 about to land at Prague in Cech.Rep.where there was heavy fog conditions when suddenly I could see where grass and no tarmac.very quickly the engines powered back up to lift us clear of the grass. What a relief ! After going around we landed in perfectly clear condition .
jptq63
jptq63 1
First, still stand by earlier comment (other post) glad the worse (so it seems) is only damage to a wind sock and a little runway cleaning.

Second, still must believe in the US laws about self incrimination.

3rd, this is opinion only and I do not know official rules / standards nor person to enforce or make, if the pilots (all) in the cockpit are not talking (more specifically, cooperating to determine root cause and preventative actions – I view any airline accident as a not good event), time to let the pilots know they are no longer permitted in USA airspace. Along with this, let China Airline know as long as any one of those pilots are on a China Airline (or affiliated company) pay roll, China Airline is not welcomed into USA airspace, as – this is opinion again here / reasoning - as China Airlines is not a safe airline to operate in USA airspace. Note, I do think China Airlines wants safe operations, but the point here is if an entity does not take all aspects of safety seriously (note, you can still prioritize events….) then it does not take any aspect of safety seriously.

Yep, I think the pilot(s) are totally at fault here. Problem here, again, opinion only, is the pilot(s) (and airline company?) rather have a same or worse accident than learn / prevent this dangerous course / type of flying again. Yes, I view China Airlines as having a share in the responsibility in this incident (what percentage is open to debate, my view is relative small), but how the China Air reacts (as this after the fact now) in preventing same or worse events from possibly happening in the future entirely up to China Airlines. China Airline (and view any company) should take the aspect that if an individual would rather not talk, then the individual should not be an employee; i.e. not talking makes you no longer an employee (maybe employable anywhere) while talking / cooperating MIGHT retain you as an employee, as any person can make a mistake, how we learn (in this case, pilot(s) get a chance learn) from a mistake and what not to do or what to do may make a difference in the future.

Please note, I base the above from what I could learn from the additional audio in the You Tube video and the stated information that the pilot(s) are not cooperating. If the pilots are cooperating, then definitely, more information is available that has not been shared to the public / general knowledge; i.e. I am not judging here, as it is not my place / job in this case to judge, just my view – opinion based upon presented information and my own knowledge in as objective a manner as I can try.
pthomas745
Pa Thomas 1
I do not know what "information" the FAA/ORD Tower would need immediately while the acft was still taxiing back, so the pilot not being forthcoming is not an issue. Fill out the Preliminary Accident form, call the duty officer, and let FSDO and NTSB take over from there. This would not be the Tower's job to do. Tempest, meet teapot.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Don't forget about dusting and cleaning the runway of FOD.
tomhines
Tom Hines 1
And filling in the huge rut.
jptq63
jptq63 1
When / how long till the Preliminary Accident form become public (and what it required reporting time / rules)? I may be taking the comments from the tower (i.e. video) wrong, but it seems an implication the pilot(s) had no intent to do any of this if not greeted.
pthomas745
Pa Thomas 3
Things get murky here because of the definition of "Accident."

"The NTSB defines a reportable “accident” as “an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft that takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.”

This aircraft might not have received "substantial damage," so no "accident" reports needed to be filed. If they discover "substantial" damage later, then the "preliminary" report will be filed. My real point here is there is nothing that anyone needs to know RIGHT NOW as the aircraft is taxiing back.
jptq63
jptq63 1
Thanks, especially for the fair and clear reply. Guess it is a waiting game at this point for the most part, but wonder why only due damage (of what ever type) to an aircraft matters vs. to non-aircraft damage; i.e. that windsock is pretty much toast.
Barth44
Jose Barth 1
in commercial aviation any departure from standard procedures and lack of training will always lead to an accident ...
Taterhed
Taterhed 1
Funny....
When American aircrews are involved in an aircraft accident/incident in China, they are arrested--yes, arrested--after the incident.

Don't forget: there is a tunnel just beyond the incident area. Had the aircraft struck that area.....well, it might have been a good deal worse.

I'm glad that no-one was injured in the making of this (future) training video.
levylu
levy lu 1
China Airlines based in Taiwan, not main land China. The law in Taiwan is more human concerned.
Taterhed
Taterhed 1
You're correct. My Apologies....

I was referencing the comments below concerning treatment of the crew. The PRC is less respectful--as are many other countries--when it comes to treatment and legal status of aircrew after an incident/accident. l
patpylot
patrick baker 0
china aircraft thus forteited the chance at the Guiness world record grass strip burn out. ..

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