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Pilots' mix up of failing engine caused 2021 cargo jet off Hawaii

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Pilot error was the main cause of the 2021 Transair crash in 2021. (www.freightwaves.com) More...

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Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 12
Well you had a 50/50 chance of being right? Memory items work well as long as you remember them. Loss of thrust, high EGT, N1, N2 Fuel flow and what would the other engine parameters look like at idle, never mind throttle position….. normal….then firewall the sucker cause speed and altitude are your friends.
bentwing60
bentwing60 15
Dead foot-dead engine still works for me, the Kiss method.
pjshield
pjshield 6
patpylot
patrick baker 5
take a deeo breath, scan
the panel and answers come quickly and correctly. Bark up and get agreement on what is presented. Nobody needed to die on this trip. Old classic 737s need to be protected from incompetent pilots
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 6
There were no fatalities.
patpylot
patrick baker -3
deep breath,,,, so when is flightaware gonna get spell check ????
bigjulie
Julius Thompson 14
Patrick Baker, it is the poster not Flight Aware who needs to check the spelling!
hangar14
Rick D 11
I learntd to spel in meye english class, and amas good as spel cheque, maybee gooder
fly1ron
Ron Butler 1
I think I might have been in your class!
Bandrunner
Bandrunner 1
Perfikly unner stan abel.
jbsimms
James Simms 0
I guess spell check & editing features is asking too much from F.A.
jbermo
jbermo 3
So what - this is a crew concept airplane where the other required crewmember MUST confirm action that is non-reversible - which most likely did not happen here.
patpylot
patrick baker 8
don't think these two "pilots?" spent nearly enough attentive time in a simulator, where these kind of real world possibilites are presented and worked on. Their company ought to be looked over to see how much sim time was paid for and used.
Propwash122
Peter Fuller 6
FAA announced in May 2022 its intent to revoke the operator certificate of the company, Rhoades Aviation dba Transair. The company had the right to appeal the revocation. Anyone reading this know whether they did appeal and how it turned out?
73Flyer07
According to an article I found, they have had their certificate of public convenience and necessity revoked. I do not know everything but, I am pretty sure this is something relevant to your question. The link below brings you to the article I found, hope this helps! https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/127640-us-regulator-revokes-transair-hawaiis-operating-license
rmust3
Thomas Musticchi 6
What a cluster ....
leenick
leenick 6
Sounds like two weak pilots who had a knee jerk reaction over an engine failure. If it was just a partial loss of power, return to the airport and keep that partial power, even if it was on fire. It also sounds like they never bothered to refer to the appropriate check list.
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 4
According to the article, "... the first officer went through the engine shutdown checklist..."
Tflys1
Tflys1 4
Sad chain of events and confirms again that distractions can be catastrophic.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 4
That’s why every step in a power plant issue requires confirmation from the PF before the PNF does anything! It does not matter whether it’s memory item or a written checklist item. Once the main items are complete then the PNF can quietly perform the ancillary clean up items as required.
clipper759
joe johnson 4
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/query-builder?month=7&year=2021

The accident date is actually 7/2/2021.
thundergob
Martin Allan 4
Exactly the same scenario & reaction by the pilot in charge of a similar aged 737 was the cause of multiple fatalities at Kegworth UK (Approach to East Midland Airport in UK (8th Jan 1989). A pilot friend of mine made the comment -" When one donkey shows sick don't unhitch the other one if you want to make progress!"
joecoastie
joecoastie 4
Years ago, I was crewman on a Navy helo when almost the same thing occurred. At 5000 ft on a cross country when one engine threw a couple of blades. Onr blade cut the fire detection element and continued on through the firewall cutting the other engine's fire detection element. Loud noises from up above, and lots of red lights on the panel. Fuel cut and fire bottles discharged on both engines. Maximum pucker factor. Autorotated 5000 ft to a perfect run on landing at Naples, FL. Number one engine was good, and would have gotten us down with a bit less drama.
jbsimms
James Simms 1
Went through something similar on a Blackhawk in Panama back in the day. Was going to observe training alongside the Canal when a couple of those ‘very important lights’ came on. Flight crew troubleshooted the issue, deciding a quick but very fast & low level trip back to Howard AFB was in order.
chris13
Chris Bryant 6
I was taught Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Sounds like this crew got the order mixed up.
baqwas
Matha Goram 1
I'm not a pilot but A,N,C came to my mind immediately too while reading this thread.
AirplaneC
C J 6
Everyone commenting here should remember this event the next time a story gets posted about an accident outside of the US. If this had happened in another country this board would be FULL of comments about how non-US pilots are sub-standard and don't receive proper training. Human factors are global and not just a third world problem.
jhakunti
jhakunti 0
When people do make those posts, it shows a defect in their thinking. Then it becomes very clear why certain things are the way they are, and then one wonders what will God flourish in the next generation?
jhakunti
jhakunti 0
When people do make those posts, it shows a defect in their thinking. Then it becomes very clear why certain things are the way they are, and then one wonders what will God flourish in the next generation? Perhaps something fuller.
JC86Pilot
Jay Cee 2
In addition to misdiagnosing their engine trouble and after declaring an emergency, they kept flying away from the departure airport. They should have orbited in the immediate airport vicinity. That would have saved the aircraft and avoided their injuries and the ditching ordeal.
RainbowRiver
Phil Nolden 2
I've had my share of failures around the world, both military and civilian. Dead foot, dead engine works every time, and a sneak peek at the gauges confirms.
cvs62
F Minook 2
I always thought it was the pilot's job to fly the aircraft and the first officer's job to handle the communications especially in an emergency. Why was it reversed in this case?
manofwars69
John Brooks 2
Pilot needs more training on emergency management and CRM.
jbsimms
James Simms 1
Likely flipping burgers somewhere or in another line of work by now.
john8479
Why not just push both thottles up together, regardless of engine indications. You're ditching, the engines are destroyed on impact with water, nothing to lose. Push the throttles UP regardless of indications if you're going down.
iflyrjs
terry gersdorf 2
Reminds when an AF C-9 crashed at Scott AFB in the 70's while on a training flight lost the #1 engine co pilot called out to the AC to shut down left and the AC replied "Right" so the CP shut the Right the good engine....bad communication
johntaylor571
John Taylor 1
That was the only C-9 crash in the entire USAF history of using that aircraft. Not a bad record considering they were still flying them at Scott when I arrived 2000.
jbsimms
James Simms 1
Was told a story @ Combined Arms & Services Staff School (‘short course’ @ Ft. Leavenworth) by a military attaché stationed in Tehran before the Revolution. Two Iranian F-14’s were coming into the main civilian airport, when one developed issues necessitating a ejection. The other F-14 pilot, upon seeing his wingman eject; also ejected out of his perfectly good F-14.

Said F-14 continued towards the civilian airport where there were a multitude of civilian aircraft. Fortunately, the F-14 crashed before reaching the airport.
73Flyer07
The confusion these pilots experienced reminds me of TransAsia Flight 235. Both Flights had pilots that were confused when one of their engines failed, both flights ended up in a body of water in the end as well.
brentaustinlee
Brent Lee 2
Without critical thinking ability, the pilots were simply along for the ride…
DracoVolantis
DracoVolantis 4
I can't believe it's 2023 and people are still speaking in terms of "pilot error" as cause of air accidents. Sure, there are "pilot errors", the question is WHY there was a pilot error? Deficient training? Confusing emergency procedures? Extreme workload? Saying that an accident was caused by a "pilot error" is just a way to pat ourselves in the back, saying, "oh, the other guy was an idiot! I would NEVER do such thing". It fixes nothing, it doesn't advance safety in the aviation industry one inch. It invites complacency: if an accident is caused by "pilot error", then how do we prevent accidents? Simple: by not committing "errors", right? Yet that attitude fixes nothing, prevents nothing. Not addressing the root causes of "pilot errors" is a disservice to aviation safety.
fly1ron
Ron Butler 1
Dayglo, in response to each of the points in your little diatribe. Believe It! You just Reiterated a lot of the terms of "pilot error. You should be "patting yourself on the back right now! Obviously, you are too old or too young to understand the legal aspects of a plane crash (air accident). It fixes everything legal to assign some blame/causation of an air accident. No one "pats themselves on the back" when people die in a plane crash. Most investigations TOTALLY address the root causes of/if there is PILOT ERROR. Do your homework please.
fly1ron
Ron Butler 1
Dayglo, in response to each of the points in your little diatribe. Believe It! You just Reiterated a lot of the terms of "pilot error. You should be "patting yourself on the back right now! Obviously, you are too old or too young to understand the legal aspects of of a plane crash (air accident). It fixes everything legal to assign some blame/causation an air accident. No one "pats themselves on the back" when people die in a plane crash. Most investigations TOTALLY address the root causes of/if there is PILOT ERROR. Do your homework please.
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
I hate to say it... But that is way too common, and then they cannot get either engine restarted. So sad!
ffrcobra1
ffrcobra1 4
They never made it to shutting down an engine. The FO pulled power back on the good engine to slow down after leveling off, and then got confused and later decided the left engine was the bad engine because the ITT, etc were low. The good engine was at idle from the time they leveled off until they hit the water.
hwh888
hwh888 1
Loss of engine is one the most feared condition for any pilot. This problem goes back to aircraft maintenance, that's what is sounds like to me. Not sure what the inspection time or requirements are for fan blades but I would assume they are pulled for inspection at major engine inspection? I'm sure at overhaul date they definitely are.
johntaylor571
John Taylor 1
Since there were no fatalities, I'll go there. It was TRANSair. Maybe it was a rock that identified as an airplane.
nasdisco
Chris B 1
CRM a factor?

Don't want either of them flying again. There are bigger issues than CRM.
john8479
Why not just push both throttles up together, regardless of engine indications. You're ditching, the engines are destroyed on impact with water, nothing to lose. Push the throttles UP regardless of indications if you're going down.

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