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Delta flight lands in Vegas with pilot locked out of cockpit

Submitted
 
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Officials say a Delta Air Lines flight from Minneapolis made an emergency landing in Las Vegas on Thursday with the co-pilot at the controls after the pilot was locked out of the cockpit. McCarran International Airport spokeswoman Christine Crews says none of the 168 people aboard Delta flight 1651 was injured, and the MD-90 aircraft wasn't damaged. (finance.yahoo.com) More...

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dtw757
mike SUT 15
Big deal....first off, First Officers at Delta are trained to the same standards as are the Captains. The hiring standards (as at other MAJOR airlines) means they show up with lots of experience and a high skill set. Las Vegas has nice long runways, usually clear weather (although sometimes, interesting wind components). All his landing data( weights, speeds etc) is right there on his FMC. Since the policy is usually every other takeoff and LANDING is done by an FO it isn't like he has never landed an MD-90 before. Finally, he has stick and rudder skills to fly the aircraft so now all he has to do is talk on the radios as well, plus do the checklists. Gee, that happens every day in the military and single pilot world. As far as steering goes after landing....either he got in the left seat because he thought about that before the approach, or he used the rudder down to about 60 kts (when the rudder usually loses steering authority)AND then used differential braking to a full stop, set the parking brake, swapped seats and taxied to the gate. It's still a plane, can be flown like a plane, just click off the automation and fly it like one.....after all...you're still a pilot. Good for him doing his job like he was trained to do and was capable of doing. His biggest concern now is, can he log the flight time as Pilot in Command in his logbook? Not to belittle the incident because he was doing something unusual and it creates pucker factor but bottom line is, he did the job he was trained to do and he did it well....Bravo Zulu

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
Where did that come from? Here is your post from below about 5 hours ago.


mike oxlong about 5 hours ago
"Not really, it's only a goat rope when something goes wrong. We train for single oily landings. I wonder at which point did he realize the tiller was in the other seat...before or after he landed"
preacher1
preacher1 1
Somebody got to gig your grumpy butt. LOL
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Oxlong, grumpy?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I had to google goat rope, never heard the term before...
preacher1
preacher1 3
You ain't never been to a bona fide goat ropin'. Hell son, you ain't lived. LOL
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
What a sheltered life I've lived!!!
preacher1
preacher1 2
There is such a thing, although that generally ain't what it's used for. LOL
StarFlyr
StarFlyr 1
Can't wait to use "Goat rope". Maybe I can work it in during the Super Bowl.

[This poster has been suspended.]

joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Typing sarcasm is easy. Having it recognized as such is a tad more difficult.
We really need a sarcasm font.
preacher1
preacher1 1
yeah we do. LOL
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
You wonder how long it will take some people to realize that!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
jmt123
jmt123 -1
I work at LAS. The airplane was towed to the gate. And it took a very long time.
SmokedChops
SmokedChops 9
everyone cue up the image of the Autopilot from "Airplane". You're welcome.
pilotbt
ben tonneson 4
Co pilots know how to fly the plane just fine. Why would they be in the cockpit if they didn't know how to fly? It's hard to fly a commercial jet without another pilot because there are responsibilities for both pilots. But co pilots have the training to fly the plane. They're both pilots. The captain isn't "the" pilot.
evbutler
Ev Butler 3
Slow news day!!

What was the emergency? Unless it is company policy, there was no real emergency. Lots of FOs have more years of flying experience than the pilot; they had rather sit right-seat than drive. much less responsibility and the same training. Both must have ATPLs and be type-rated for the crate they are flying. What was the problem except a jammed door?
jmilleratp
John Miller 3
As a Captain, I find the best way to be allowed back into the Flight Deck is to bring cookies!
ad8916
That works in many situations!
preacher1
preacher1 1
John, your pic/face looks familiar. Don't you fly for AA?
dee9bee
dee9bee 2
Wouldn't there have been a Flight Attendant in the cockpit while the Captain was in back, presumably in the lav? There would have been on the airline I flew for.
Spreadriven
Agree there would have been one other person in there no matter what at my current employer.
preacher1
preacher1 2
You know, that is the 1st mention of that but I believe you are correct. I'm a thinkin' it's an FAA deal and not just airline but can't quote chapter and verse on it.
dtw757
mike SUT 1
It is indeed.....she must have landed it because everyone knows they can fly and co-pilots can't.
EAGDDS
Eric Graham 3
Mr. Oxlong,
You are woefully misinformed. First Officers routinely fly alternating legs of a series of flights. My son flies for a regional airline and he handles radios one leg and flies from takeoff to landing on alternating legs. He has an ATP rating and is type rated to fly the plane. Why for a minute would you think that a pilot up front was not FULLY qualified to fly the plane that he is a pilot for? I thought I would only see this on the regular media and not on flightaware. They even said that they declared an emergency. That would be completely unnecessary. He certainly had a heavier workload doing the radios, checklists, and flying, but would be no problem. The reason they cannot steer from the right seat is that the tiller is located to the left of the captains seat.
preacher1
preacher1 4
Do you not realize that you are in the company of 4 ATP's here ribbing each other and you jump in here without looking at the comment string to find a spread of fact and sarcasm.
EAGDDS
Eric Graham 2
sorry
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
That's OK, our posts weren't in vain, WE GOT U!!!
EAGDDS
Eric Graham 1
Guess I saw so much blab on the networks about this that I didn't think to check on posters qualifications.
cozydk
And now the captain will see a deduction in his pay for hanging out with the passengers rather than doing his job. After all, this is Delta.... ;-)
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
All kinds of Maintenance problems happen... I wonder if the FO was locked in the Cockpit.
Gesd
Scott Duncan 1
I've asked the question many times----if the captain should happen to pass away enroute and the F/O assumes command will he be paid captain's rate for the rest of the flight and can he log this time as PIC? No one has ever answered this question.
StarFlyr
StarFlyr 1
I'll answer it although it's a stupid question. Of course not re the captains pay. And yes, it's pilot in command time (PIC). That and $3 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Where can you find $3 coffee at?
StarFlyr
StarFlyr 1
With all these "dry humor" comments, the ground pounders are going to think First Officers/ copilots/etc are just a bunch of "goat ropers". Of course, most of this comes directly from the media that knows almost nothing about aviation and the ground pounders pick up on it.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Thank God the Co-pilot was trained sufficiently to land the airplane in that emergency without injuring anyone!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 4
Confirmation that there are two ignorant trolls that are reading this article!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
3 now
EAGDDS
Eric Graham 3
Read my reply above. Its not Thank God. That is part of the First Officers duties. Do all you people think that the captain flies the plane on every flight??? That is the most amazing thing I have ever heard. That would be dangerous to not have the FO flying regularly to keep his skills peaked.
CaptainFreedom
lol the public is so relieved. The co-pilot should be decorated as a hero!
preacher1
preacher1 4
Handling a mad dog by himself, I'll bet he was busier than a one legged guy in a butt kickin' contest. LOL. There is a reason there are 2 up front. LOL
s2v8377
s2v8377 1
It was an MD88??? I was wondering which type aircraft it was. I wonder how the door got stuck?

Delta maintenance must of had to use a whole can of WD-40 on that door : )
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 2
Or a persuasion mallet...
preacher1
preacher1 3
daddy always told me that if something didn't work, just use a bigger hammer
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
or a torch..lol
preacher1
preacher1 1
Story says MD 90

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
I don't expect he worried about it until after he got down. LOL. I had forgotten about that. LOL Yeah, I know you train for it and that it can be done but you still are busy.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
U know how much steering is available with the pedals?
preacher1
preacher1 1
You know, he could have swapped seats after he got down too but I think that tiller can be reached from the FO side with a little strain. not sure on that 90. Last mad dog I had hold of was an 83
dee9bee
dee9bee 1
The cockpit in the -90 is the same width as the -83's we used to fly. He would have to switch seats to steer beyond what the rudder pedals afforded him. Since it wasn't a medical emergency, the health of his pilot certificate was assured by asking for the tow. He did a good job.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I didn't see where he got a tow. I guess that was something the sensationalism missed. 90% don't know about the tiller either.
dee9bee
dee9bee 1
Yea, they mention the tow on airliners.net, quoting an ABC report.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, that explains it then. I wasn't over there.LOL
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Get over there old man, you gotta keep us informed!!!

[This poster has been suspended.]

THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
It's one of them new fangled co-pilots!!!
s2v8377
s2v8377 2
They've upgraded the autopilot (automatic pilot) since the move Airplane! ; )

The First Officer is just as qualified to fly the aircraft as the Captain. The difference is seniority on what they can hold.
CaptainFreedom
it inflates much more rapidly now.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Hopefully the FA isn't asthmatic...
pamuth
Philip Muth 1
ROFLMAO!
akayemm
I have been given to understand that every aircraft has duplicated controls shared by pilot (PIC) and copilot (First Officer)
I also understand that there ' some ' controls which are exclusive to the pilot, PIC. Like steering and brakes and some more.
I have always wondered why they too can not be duplicated on the copilot's side ?
It will help in more ways than one ! Especially in emergencies which are of many varieties in context of flying .
I assure that engineeringwise there can or will be no problem. Cost increase? Marginal which any buyer can afford. On cost-benefit rationale .
Please educate . I need it .
preacher1
preacher1 1
Primary is the steering tiller. In most aircraft there is only one and it is located on the Captain's side. It is a right side option that is hardly ever exercised because of cost. Brakes and all the other stuff are pretty much the same. Even on FO's leg, Captain generally drives to and from the gate.
akayemm
google Wikipedia says
" Most large, transport category airplanes use a device known as a tiller to steer the airplane while taxiing. This usually takes the form of a small steering wheel or lever in the cockpit, often one for the pilot and one for the co-pilot."
Now , so why aren't there 'two' tillers ? Just in case !
Cost can't be that prohibitive ? Once even black boxes were considered "costly" . No ?
preacher1
preacher1 1
I can't remember the exact cost but it is quite expensive. When you just have one or 2 planes and fly the same thing all the time, it ain't all that bad but when you look at a 121 fleet and a bunch of planes, it does add up. Our 707 was equipped with it when I hired on. I remember speccing it on our 757 and then in 2007, on the 767 and when our CRJ was modded in 2012, we had it put in at the mod shop. That was fairly simple as the gutted everything but it wouldn't have been simple if nothing was coming out. Don't believe everything you see in Wiki.
akayemm
Dear preacher1 , believe me soon even these black boxes are going to under go changes. Making them more costly !
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, I figure they will, at least in your part of the world or on an over water flight. It will just price everything up if they are mandated for everybody. Everybody will just put it in the rate base and go on.
akayemm
When BB were put and many other safety system were installed , all these added to the aircraft cost and ultimately were passed on to airfare . Even insurance cover provided by the airline is paid by the traveler. Right ?
Yet no eye brows are raised. ;-p
preacher1
preacher1 1
I don't really know what all is in there but it is a cost and costs must be covered in order for them to make a profit.
akayemm
A few misadventures or mishaps , costs will take the back seat ! CVR - its duration has been debated a lot in the past but now ? They are planning it for the whole length of flight duration! And what about continuous tracking system ? That too will add to cost . Of sorts. Cost-benefit analysis is a never ending tussle between designers/engineers on one side and the costing/marketing guys on the other . And that's what they paid for. For the entertainment of the Top Brass , who convert this 'entertainment' into money in an appropriate/legal way ! ;-D
preacher1
preacher1 1
regarding the CVR, long time ago, when the unions got it to 2 hours, FAA said that it would be kept confidential except for investigators and families. We know that hasn't happened and I really don't think it will be in forseeable future either. They will get the last 2 hours, which is generally where a problem occurs but that one is gonna take awhile. They won't just snap their fingers there.
akayemm
Unions will have to cave in , when law takes over due to societal reasons.
preacher1
preacher1 1
The equipment will record as is, parameters just have to be reset by mx. The CVR extension will be after the fight. The problem will be to find then. Then have the fight about a parameter change.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
They use the tiller to have more control over the moving plane while taxing... Rudder pedals only have 7 degrees of control, in each direction you can imagine what this would do in the close proximity of a gate area.. The tiller allows 70 degrees of control in each direction (140 degrees total) so that tight turns are possible at lower taxi speeds. Traditionally most airline class airlines have only 1 tiller, but some have 2 for example the Fokker F28-1000 had it as an option for the co pilot.
akayemm
The way I understand the news item, apparently the 'copilot' sat in the port seat to land and taxi . Right ? After all in emergency , taxiing and landing both are necessary. Correct ? So my query continues to be what if the PIC is in port seat and gets incapacitated and can not be removed, how will the 'co-pilot' land AND taxi the a/c without the tiller control on the star board side ? Or do you mean, he may land and brake/stop the a/c on the main runway and the emergency ground staff will take over there from ? Q.E.F. ?
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
If he taxied to the gate, he had to... Landing would have made no difference. If they could not had gotten the captain out of the seat they would have just stopped on the runway and had emergency crews to meet them.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I never read about him swapping seats. Probably rudder and brakes on landing. Somewhere in this string is a comment from a LAS employee that he took a tow from the stop point to the gate. He could have swapped seats after the stop and drove in on into the gate. No big deal either way. Your query about PIC being incapacitated and not be able to be removed is bad far out and way down on the list of what ifs.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Rudder and Brakes are on both sides, that would not had made a difference... There have been incidences of captains being in incapacitated and the the FO landed from the right seat
akayemm
PIC incapacitated in the port side seat - fact vs. fiction ! May be the FO can land from star board seat and in the mean time some other crew members can remove the PIC from port side seat and so on. The a/c can be brought to the gate.
And in the extreme case FO will be justified to land and stop on the main runway .
I hope .
ashepley17
ashepley17 0
Why was the captain going to the bathroom 13 min prior to landing?!?!?! You either hold it until you are the gate or go at a less critical phase of flight.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
You tell that to the turtle when he starts poking his head out!!!
ashepley17
ashepley17 1
You dont leave the cockpit at critical phases of flight. Period.
StarFlyr
StarFlyr 1
Well, if you had a "little john", you could stay in the cockpit. Might be a little tough to use with a co-ed crew.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Little-John-Portable-Urinal/746951.uts

I keep one in my car and use it frequently.
30west
30west 1
preacher1
preacher1 1
And for any of you old folks out there that don't know what that means:

"too much information"
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
U googled that?
preacher1
preacher1 1
No, I got told by my Son the other day. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
I guess he had to P real bad.
dtw757
mike SUT 1
It's a physiological thing....either you have a small bladder and don't want to pee yourself if you have to do a go-around OR the co-pilot is going to attempt a landing (and we all know what kind of skills they have) and you don't want to pee yourself from his attempts.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
From what I have seen, many of the FO's do better landings than many captains... Just an observation of the flights that I have been on... Not sure if they are trying harder, or the captains have less to prove.
smoki
smoki 0
It's obvious some of the posts in this forum are by people who are either incredibly ignorant or just plain stupid. What's with all this BS about "I can't believe he landed the plane by himself...." To quote from a certain cartoon character "Good grief!" or to put into today's common vernacular, BFD! It's standard procedure in today's commercial transport world for FO's to operate the airplane from takeoff to landing on alternating legs. They handle the comm already for most of the ground operations and in flight when they're not the flying pilot so big deal he had to use the radio in addition to the other usual duties. In the single piloted world, and yes with passengers, it's common practice. No doubt the Captain was in touch by intercom though his input would by necessity have been minimal with a "you got it, I'm taking a seat" retort. This may already have been the FO's leg anyway. So he landed, brought the bird to a complete stop using differential braking after aerodynamic rudder control faded out probably on a highspeed turnoff which would have been an easy turn and awaited a tow or shifted over to the left seat and continued the taxi using the tiller but one poster who works at LAS said the plane was towed after a lengthy delay. I can see maybe towing the last few feet to line up with the gate but all the way in making the pax sit out there and probably miss connections? And some posters herein made a big deal about use of the term "Goat Rope" in reference to the FO handling the airplane alone IF there was the added presence and pressure of a mechanical problem. If you are ignorant of that term's use then you haven't been around the commercial transport world very much if at all where it is in common use every day somewhere even when there's not a mechanical problem with the airplane but more than likely in reference to some company imposed issue. Frankly I don't understand why it was necessary to declare an emergency in the first place under the circumstances - but it is what it is.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Smoki, most of what you are seeing below is total sarcasm. FA just doesn't give us a font. Get a life man. LOL
smoki
smoki 1
I have one and I'm quite happy with it. What's your excuse?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
PREACH ON PREACHERMAN!!!
bobhirst
Robert Hirst 1
You used an apostrophe incorrectly.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Out of curiosity, what is your working definition of 'goat rope'? You can PM me if you don't want to post it on the public board. Re calling an emergency: it may be company policy for some reason.
preacher1
preacher1 1
You probably need to do like THRUSTT did and Google goat rope. There is such a thing in actuality but it can be used kinda disparaging as well. LOL
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I did, but was wondering what smoki meant in the same vein as:
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/550389-when-i-use-a-word-it-means-just-what-i
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
I've been around the commercial transport world since Dec.,1987, and never hear the goat rope term. So what's your point???

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
Your understanding on the emergency declaration is correct. Smoki's, as I took it, was just to emphasize that it wasn't a big deal. Although most big iron requires 2 up front, it can be handled by 1, you are just a little busier.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 3
You know, according to your profile, you have been a member for 5 years. In 5 years the world has changed. In 5 years the makeup of this forum has changed as people have retired and/or passed on. Point is, a lot of us have paid our dues and while some of this on here has turned to babble, there are also some young ones on here willing to listen/learn and hopefully get encouraged by what is passed on here. I appreciate your comments below but you are not well received by others and there is some arrogance showing in your comments. That can be discouraging to some.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, Mr. Hartmann, as you say, there are some legit aviators in here and we have had a little fun with this thread and another post from Patrick Smith. The shame of it all, a co-pilot landing a plane by himself. How did they survive. Dang man, loosen up and get a life!

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, like you we were just totally flabbergasted and got sarcastic at the media reports. Most reporters and the flying public seem to think that co-pilots are subhuman and don't do anything but talk on the radio and run checklists every now and then. God forbid that they should ever touch a control. They don't realize that they probably fly 50% of the flights; that the airlines would not have them in the cockpit unless qualified; and now that has been even more cemented with the new requirement of
1500hrs and an ATP to be in the pointey end; that basically it's just seniority keeping them out of the left seat. Patrick Smith has a post on here somewhere to the media about co pilots and it is a mix of serious and sarcasm as well. We all know how it is but as I said, the media and flying public have no idea.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
Not to mention the fact that some FO's may in fact have more flying hrs. than their Captain but just might be new to the type or got bumped down in seniority do to a merger.
smoki
smoki 2
Thank you so much Hartmann for your elitist rhetorical response. It was so enlightening. As to your general public invasion reference, this is after all a public discussion forum which by definition means it's open to anyone including those with less than a working knowledge of the inner sanctum of commercial aviation. I assume from your arrogant tone that you consider yourself among the elitist few who are "LEGIT" aviators who actually knows what he is talking about, who "sticks around" to view or join in the discussion for the sake of its "entertainment value" or could it be that you're posing as such and belong instead to the uninformed, those of the general public who use the forum "for a toilet to babble...." or perhaps the adolescent behaving group who prefers to use the forum for playing sarcastic mind games with their comments as referred to by at least one poster herein who seems to serve as the forum's self appointed arbitrator. Adios amigo!
Alamo1000
Alex Ohde 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Video: Ladies and Gentlemen This Is Your Pilot And We Seem To Have A Small Problem

There is video of a Minneapolis Delta flight heading to Las Vegas at the moment the pilot informed passengers they needed to make an emergency and you won’t believe why! He was LOCKED out of the cockpit….

http://www.tpnn.com/2015/02/01/video-ladies-and-gentlemen-this-is-your-pilot-and-we-seem-to-have-a-small-problem/
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Delta 1651 MSP - LAS emergency with flight deck door malfunction.

The first officer declared an emergency and landed safely alone when the Captain was locked out due to a malfunctioning door to the flight deck. Someone is going to be unhappy somewhere. An otherwise slow news day.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/delta-flight-lands-vegas-pilot-locked-cockpit-28591862
rjburns
robert burns 1
I wonder what REALLY happened????
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
I finally see your point, 13 minutes, guess it's possible...

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