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FAA investigating near collision of two jets at Reagan National Airport

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Two passenger jets came within 400 feet of each other before controllers took last-minute evasive action and immediately stopped the two planes. It’s not clear why the jets were authorized to be on the same runway at the same time. (wtop.com) More...

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ghstark
Greg S 16
I've been hearing about these runway incursion incidents much more in the last few years but I've no idea if they're really becoming more frequent or just being reported more frequently. It seems like much care in flight protocols and technology (TCAS) has been expended to prevent midair collisions, but by comparison ground operations are the wild, wild west.
BillOverdue
Even superior technology cannot prevent incompetent, unqualified people from creating more problems that their salary dictates! At near $50 a hour using near fool-proof technology, you'd think a person could separate planes on a tarmac or prevent midair near-misses and collisions, after all that's what they're paid to do! Simply prioritizing automated technology seems too difficult for many ATC personnel? In this case the ATC audio says it all, despite the gibberish seen in quite a few posts here.
williambell617
Part of the problem is controllers who don't understand the impact they can have on aviation safety. My son is a controller at one the the country's large airports with about 15 years of experience. As one of the more senior controllers, he is tasked with helping with the training of new controllers. He was recently training a new controller that had a terrible attitude and did not have the proper mindset to be a safe controller. He once stated that it didn't matter if he made a mistake since his coworkers or the equipment would catch it. Fortunately, he failed to qualify at that airport. Unfortunately, he was sent to another airport to try and qualify. I have heard that he has not gotten off to a good start at the new airport.
bbabis
bbabis 1
The dangerous part is that due to DEI he WILL qualify somewhere.
JamesMorgart
You nailed it!
ktnxpi
The following is provided as background and education to assist in future reporting of Air Traffic Controller issues such as staffing shortages and Controller fatigue. I do not seek “15 seconds of fame", and although the information is factual and accurate to the best of my ability, it does represent just one retired Controller’s view of the current situation. My motivation is simple; Air Traffic Control is a challenging and rewarding career field and deserves to be reported upon in an accurate and fair manner.

FATIGUE (current climate of opinion)

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Controllers have long been able to determine work schedules, with the assistance of the National Air Traffic Controller Association (NATCA), and through the enforcement of the collective bargaining agreement. "Quick turn-arounds" or the "Rattler", are colloquial terms for schedules that include minimum time between shifts. The schedules have long been the preferred schedule by most Controllers, as they provide more time off between workweeks; i.e. a long set of regular days off (RDO). For example, the work schedule referred to as the :”2-2-1” or “Rattler” involves the following assigned shifts:

1st workday: 4:00 PM until midnight
2nd workday: 3:00 pm until midnight
3rd workday: 8:00 AM until 4:00 PM
4th workday: 7:00 AM until 3:00 PM
5th workday: 11:00 pm until 7:00 AM (ending the following work day).

The results:
5th day/last day of the work week, ends at 7:00 AM, and the next work week does not begin until 4:00 PM on the first day back to work after the long "weekend".

Due to the requirement for 24 hours each day, 7 days each week, 365 days each year coverage, a typical Controller schedule does not conform to a Monday through Friday workweek. However you might better understand the resulting longer “weekend” by the following example: On Friday the workday ends at 7:00 AM, and the next workday (next week) does not begin until 4:00 PM. on Monday.

My point is, the schedule is not forced upon the workforce, but is rather a preferred work schedule.

The FAA mandated recent changes to mitigate fatigue on the “midnight shift”
§ Air traffic managers must ensure that no less than two fully-certified and current operational personnel are assigned to midnight shift, unless no such personnel are available for assignment.
§ In 2011, and in response to Controllers falling a sleep on the “midnight" shift (generally any shift between 11:00 PM and 8:00 AM), the FAA revised the rule to read , “ must not condone or permit individuals to sleep during any period duties are assigned.” This is interpreted to allow sleep when a Controller is not assigned duties, e.g. while on a (sometime prolonged) break
§ .As a result of a 2011 agreement, between the controller union and the FAA, air traffic controllers can now request to take leave if they feel (self initiated) too fatigued to work air traffic. Previously approval of vacation time (Annual Leave) was predicated upon available staffing. Likewise Sick Leave required the employee to posses a legitimate medical reason for Sick Leave to be granted. The 2011 agreement allows the controller to utilize both types of leave at their discretion; i.e. not subject to staffing requirements.
§ FAA tracks “time on position", the cumulative amount of time a Controller is “plugged in” to an operational position. Nationwide that time has recently been reported as 4 hours, 2 minutes per 8-hour shift.

STAFFING SHORTAGE/CONTROLLER PERFORMANCE

The more significant issue with the current workforce is the chickens coming home to roost.

It is correct to state, air-traffic control staffing shortages predate the FAA’s current leadership. Though I am not a fan of the current administration, I challenge anyone to find a time in modern history when major Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Air Traffic Control facilities were fully or even close to being fully staffed. As just one example at Chicago O'Hare (ORD) in the early to mid 1970s, the journeyman level staffing never exceeded 50% -60% of what was authorized. This in spite of the fact, prior to 1973, individuals who had been Controllers in the military was a primary source of hires for the FAA. Since the end of the Vietnam War, and the end of the "Draft", the number of valued former military hires is no longer a significant contribution (in numbers) to FAA staffing.

The primary problem is the FAA is a government agency and operates at the whim of politicians, and has on occasion instituted a hiring freeze as a real or perceived effort toward fiscal responsibility and perhaps to please their audience. As a result, hiring has always been sporadic, even though since 1972 (Public Law 92-297) the FAA knows definitively what impact retirement will have on the workforce since a Controller is required to retire at age 56, and voluntarily retire at age 50 with 25 years as a Controller, but fail to hire replacements accordingly.

To further exacerbate the situation, in December 2013, the FAA dropped the preference for College Training Initiative (CTI) graduates and instead relied only on a biographical questionnaire to fill controller positions. Those colleges believe the FAA changes were made based on an agency diversity study that examined the race and gender of CTI graduates. Established by the FAA in1982, the CTI was a very successful college training program eventually enlisting 28 colleges to provide initial air traffic control training. By the way, students attending these private and public institutions were motivated and paid for the education they received, unlike the majority of applicants hired as a result of the December 2013 policy change. Prior to December 2013, many colleges, such as the Community College of Beaver County (Pennsylvania) , maintained a minimum of a 6 month long waiting list to enter the program. After the December 2013 change, a number of these schools discontinued their ATC curriculum due to a lack of students. The initiative to improve racial diversity has made a mockery of the screening process. In fiscal year 2020 Controller Hiring Reform Act was enacted in an attempt to rectify the problems incurred as a result of the December 2013 decision. The recent law now gives preference to those who have graduated with a four-year degree from a CTI school or have parallel military ATC experience. However it will take years to overcome the 2013 fiasco; i.e. hiring individuals who might not have had the ability and motivation to do the job. In the meantime "the chickens are coming home to roost", in the form of increased incidents. Keep in mind applicants hired as a result of the 2020 Act, returning hiring to some degree of normalcy, will be trained by those Controllers hired during the period that questionable hiring policies were in place. On April 25, 2024, Fox Business reported that a lawsuit had been filed against the FAA regarding the December 2013 change in the hiring process.

Once again consider the hiring implications of PL92-297; i.e. applicants must be hired before their 31st birthday. Recent surveys have indicated, the generation of individuals eligible to be hired under the law has indicated an aversion to a high stress, demanding work environment. At least for now, Air Traffic Control is not a stay at home profession, but rather a career requiring motivation and an aptitude not necessarily achieved by acquiring a traditional form of “higher education”.
Thanks for listening. There is plenty of material available regarding this issue, should you choose to do additional research. Don't take my word for it ...
KoolerKT
KoolerKT 4
Way too much to read!
BillOverdue
Pfft, did you even listen to the ATC audio? It "extremely" damning! Blame NATCA for hiring the wrong people for the wrong jobs! Its obvious to me, and anyone else that listens to the audio, the aptitude doesn't fit the job profile requirements.
ekfd16c3
I just read through the comments below and have a thought to offer. Could the problems today be caused by the bickering evidenced below? Wait for the investigation and then form your opinions
apro
apro 1
To what extent are these near disasters the result of cognitive impairment induced by the mandatory COVID shots?

The incident in Austin would seem to be a clear cut case of a cognitively impaired controller clearing an aircraft for departure onto a runway on which he had just cleared another aircraft to land.

Even more troubling, it would also seem to be a clear cut case of a cognitively impaired flight crew accepting a clearance to taxi onto the runway despite their knowledge that a landing on that runway was imminent. Fortunately, the flight crew of the approaching aircraft seemed to have sufficient cognition to recognize and prevent the impending disaster.

Significant cognitive impairment is a well documented side effect of the COVID shots.
nasdisco
Chris B 3
It may not be clear, but its blindingly obvious how this happened once you listen to the ATC tape.
ravanviman
hal pushpak 3
SteveTarr
Steve Tarr 1
The video simulation is excellent. (BTW, let's keep these squawks on aviation topics, thanks all)
BravoT
Chalk it up to DEI folks. Over the last few years I've had four near misses or incidents with ATC. All occurred under IFR in IMC in either Class B airspace or a Class D airport beneath Class B airspace. In one case I was forced to knowingly disobey ATC instructions to maintain separation (and a potential collision) for the safety of the flight (thanks to TCAS). Three of the four near misses / incidents involved "equal opportunity" hires that exhibited behavior indicating they were not qualified for the job. It's bad and only getting worse. Get ready for the cover up and excuses when the bad accident with multiple fatalities invariably happens.
mikabjork
Mika Bjork 1
The main problem with DEI is that it asks who deserves the job instead of who is the best for the job. If you start with “who deserves”, no matter what criteria you use, you are not going to get the best results, other than by chance.
Sundune54
At a minimum DCA needs to add the clearance delivery position to the tower to reduce workload on the ground controllers responsible aircraft taxiing to the runways.
SteveSchott
The air traffic control system is antiquated. It has relied on humans in the loop talking over radios for nearly a century. There is a huge potential to make the system safer and more efficient by using advanced technology
BillOverdue
Although, on the surface, I totally disagree with you, because it has improved, substantially! Lets assume for a minute you're correct. Then where did the billions and billions and billions and billions go? The same way the USPS and AmTrak does... they have their own cash incinerators!
msetera
msetera -3
DEI producing it's results....

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

ghstark
Greg S 7
Your comment is brainless racism in action.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

dee9bee
dee9bee 7
Sounds speculative to me. Like my high school geometry teacher always said, "Show your work". (I got a 'D', by the way)
bbabis
bbabis 4
https://viewfromthewing.com/diversity-in-the-skies-faas-controversial-shift-in-air-traffic-controller-hiring/

Enjoy!
btweston
btweston 1
Your damning evidence is an opinion piece from a blog?

Cool, man.
BillOverdue
Clearly, the damning evidence is the audio! They're in way over their "aptitude capabilities".
bentwing60
bentwing60 2
this comment deserves the same grade.
ravanviman
hal pushpak 1
The problem with asking to "show one's work" these days is that those you are speaking to, thanks to the "misinformation highway," will find and cherry-pick whatever (to them) seems the authoritative-looking opinion which suits the ingrained bias. Finding peer-reviewed and/or fact-checked sources is burdensome -- and the results are often annoying.. :)
bentwing60
bentwing60 7
hp, peer reviewed, IMHO means paid for these days and fact checked begs the question, By who?

It has become a liars world with no back button or bottom to the latest lie.

Anyone remember the UND and Embrey-Riddle ATC college prep courses that instantly disappeared when oblunder declared them racial entities?

Well, I do and so does bbabis!
ravanviman
hal pushpak 1
OK then. So do you guys have a solution? What's your method of getting true information?
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Pure, unadulterated skepticism, observation of what they do, not what they say and a firm belief that our virtues, tenets and integrity will win out, for they possess none of the afore mentioned!

Critical thought and that part of the net that they will do anything to censor is over the target for a rich source of non msm bs.

There is a reason relatively unfettered comment sites are quite rare these days and do not exist on any msm sponsored site.

Start here, they are the Vanguard of putting out conservative and whatever news, thought and even comedy site posts and origins.

https://www.whatfinger.com/
ravanviman
hal pushpak 0
Umm.. Alrighty then! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PlwdTUR-ks
BillOverdue
Speculative? How so? This topic "is a result of their work"! You probably don't believe "at least" 12 millions illegals walked into this country in the past 3 years or 2 generations of Ukrainian men have died and we keep funding them so more can die in a absolutely unwinnable war or most of the 101st Airborne is already in the Black Sea to start dying in the Ukraine for absolutely no reason, despite being told no US soldiers would ever be involved. You may not believe any of this, but is has happened and continues to happen as I type this message! Try harder!
Nooge
Nooge -9
He is in Y’all Qaeda aka Qaeda Anon

They parrot dishonest language they get from those who want to divide us

Forgive him he is in a far-right wing cult and the victim of the cult led his false prophet

These Really dumb undereducated white grievance hillbillies who wear red polyester hats and fly Trump flags are beyond help
TiredTom
Tom Bruce 4
there's nut cases and extremists on both sides..
nickmarino758
Hi, 400 hundred feet is as good as a mile. No problem!!!!
BillOverdue
After making one mistake, might as well do another one? Pretty soon it doesn't matter anymore! Pretty soon people die, but that's just collateral damage ... comes with the job! Hang in there sport, as long as it isn't you, no problem.
bt1104053
Bob Turner 0
Maybe they should limit the number of operations to airports that need controllers, depending on the number of controllers available during operations. Besides nowadays we see more sensationalizing of these events with the news media. I think the pilots of southwest were probably double checking visually before crossing this active runway.

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